This is NOT going Well… Linux Gaming Challenge Pt.2 

Linus Tech Tips
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Luke and Linus continue their challenge to use Linux on their home PCs. Today's challenge? Game streaming, complete with team comms and a camera setup.

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0:00 Intro
1:05 Today's Challenge
1:40 Linus' tries OBS
3:44 Luke tries OBS
4:10 Issues with Software that Doesn't Exist
7:45 Luke's Audio Issues
8:50 Linus' Discord Journey
10:15 Luke's Random Issues
11:37 Linus Camera
11:59 Luke's Overall Thoughts
12:55 Linus' Overall Thoughts
14:25 Outro

Znanost i tehnologija

Datum objavljivanja:


22. Stu 2021.



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Komentari : 10 261   
Linus Tech Tips
Linus Tech Tips Prije mjesec
Got a really good pointer on how to get Logitech battery monitoring working! Much love. Thanks MissingClara
Ian Visser
Ian Visser Prije 10 dana
For luke's voice going deep, either he hit 2nd puberty, or it's his mic's sample rate. Up the sample rate (restarting app will reinitialize and hopefully select highest available, or find it in input device settings somewhere).
stevin47 Prije 22 dana
any testing on 12600k vs 5600x gaming on linux ?
Aryan Akhare
Aryan Akhare Prije 22 dana
You should do Budget Gaming Setup in specific price limitation
PechoBoy Prije mjesec
What about making a video about battery saving in linux
esurfer26 Prije mjesec
Do you know graphic run better in Linux than in the latest Windows 11? It seem like I have upgrade my PC without paying a dime.
Jeff Geerling
Jeff Geerling Prije mjesec
I think this is my favorite series on LTT in, well, forever. Would also like an 'Anthony Reacts' follow-up at some point.
Maria Stevens
Maria Stevens Prije mjesec
@youcantleavethisempty even better when you get to watch a newb make the same mistakes you did lol
Yeah, it's hilarious how a newb reacts to Linux...
Maria Stevens
Maria Stevens Prije mjesec
Yes, Anthony Reacts please!
Jesse G
Jesse G Prije mjesec
@Kevin Lopez If he tried to spin off and go his own way Linus would probably sue him.
Buford "Mad Dog" Tannen
@s n ask Jeff. 😉
Dylan Turner
Dylan Turner Prije mjesec
As someone who uses Linux as their daily driver and for gaming, I wanna say that I appreciate the impact your videos have had. Your two Linux videos have created a spark in the community to fix many issues that help with user friendliness (including a patch that was applied to apt as a direct result of your issues in the first video). Many of them have been relatively minor changes that simply never got changed because there never was a need. A Windows transplant was expected to essentially rice their setup and solve issues on their own and through questions, not have things just work out of the box. Although a bit controversial in the community, the videos have created important discussion and seem to be making a positive difference overall, so I thank you for continuing to give it a shot. I'm sorry it's been so problematic, but I hope you'll be able to smooth out all of your issues soon!
renegade637 Prije 5 sati
If this is true, I may jump back into Ubuntu and see if it's much easier to use.
Levi Ferrero
Levi Ferrero Prije 2 dana
Fuck Linux lmao
Dylan Turner
Dylan Turner Prije 8 dana
@schopenhauersring "nothing has changed with respect to Linux gaming and support for the games put there [in the past 20 years]" Dude, how are you so absolutely wrong? Steam didn't even exist 20 years ago! (it was created in 2003). Tons of stuff has changed in terms of compatibility. The vast majority of games work now. You're a nut job if you think otherwise I was kinda going along with what you were saying, but you lost me there at the end.
Nathan Clark
Nathan Clark Prije 23 dana
@SkyTech RTS The fake part, dingus, was that they'd had a computer that they'd used for 10 years with upgrades and all that they never had to install drivers for. Yes windows computers turn on and work out of the box, mostly usually generally but not always. Trust me doll face, anyone who's done actual IT work will know that no OS is actually flawless. None
SkyTech RTS
SkyTech RTS Prije 23 dana
@Nathan Clark M8 its not a fake story that Windows 7 worked out of the fucking box. I literally had it on my old PC ages ago (and frankly was the easiest time I had with an OS, everything afterwards was downhill from there) Stop coping and denying reality, its fucking embarassing.
Marshal Stewart
Marshal Stewart Prije mjesec
As a developer this is hilarious. Many things we do in Linux, we forget aren’t trivial.
Marshal Stewart
Marshal Stewart Prije 5 sati
@renegade637 lmao no
renegade637 Prije 5 sati
This is why I'll use Windows more often because it's easier to get under the hood through the Administration permissions as compared with having to remember umpteen Linux derivative command lines just to be able to do anything. Kudos with it being a free OS. I dropped Microsoft Office when I found out I could do the same stuff with LibreOffice and OpenOffice. But, I'd rather give my mother a Windows computer because it's much more straight forward to use and fix if something goes wrong or she does something wrong.
forks and popsticles
@ThatDominikGuy GCC is the GNU compiler collection tho
forks and popsticles
@ступид гет смарт
CGMe Prije 6 dana
@Roy Marshall He's a bit error prone
S31Syntax Prije mjesec
"magically fixed itself and we don't know why or how" seems to be a constant theme with this episode
Nunya Business
Nunya Business Prije 15 sati
little gremlin devs being patch goblins no doubt
Max Arendorff
Max Arendorff Prije 29 dana
@Kieran I disaggree. Linus, as he admits himself at some point IIRC, is not the average user. PC gamers with expensive propriertary and obscure hardware they want to use and elaborate streaming setups are not the average user. The average user uses his/her PC for browsing the web, maybe reading PDFs, viewing images, writing a document, stuff like that. And for these people, Linux is great. And that's the type of people all the noob-friendly distros like Linux Mint or Zorin OS target. For these people, Linux is actually better than Windows because it's much safer and more private to use and doesn't allow them to install random and possibly dangerous software from the internet and is safe from viruses without needing an invasive antivirus software. Instead the package manager provides all the software they could ever need. Linux also doesn't slow down if you don't reinstall it regularly and doesn't require you to buy a new PC after the next update to the OS comes out because your old one is trash now for some reason. About the driver thing: Yes, there are awesome people out there who try to reverse engineer drivers for hardware on Linux but that is not how it should be. The manufacturer should simply provide them as they do with Windows. The Linux community cannot resonably be expected to make up for the failings of companies like Nvidia.
Kieran Prije 29 dana
@Max Arendorff That's the point, though. You get the limitations of Linux and are fine with that, but lots of times when issues with Windows are brought up, there's often going to be at least one person saying "Switch to Linux", as if it's a simple task for the average user. Linus is intentionally not doing deep research into this, instead going in following the "just switch to Linux" advice that's often thrown around. If people are promoting Linux on the desktop as suitable for the average user, then we need someone who will just blindly follow tutorials and say yes to whatever is thrown in their face, as a real end-user would. If people want desktop Linux to be a viable competitor to Windows and macOS beyond just Chrome OS, then there's still a long way to go. Also, given the Linux/Free Software philosophy is "if it doesn't exist, you can write the code yourself", why is it then down to the manufacturer to write the driver, exactly, when the community can also reverse-engineer and write drivers themselves?
Max Arendorff
Max Arendorff Prije 29 dana
@Kieran Not sure what the rebooting issue has to do with that. Windows needs to reboot all the time. It's a dumb argument for using LInux though as you rightly pointed out. But this series honestly is not doing a very good job of showing the bad and good sides of Linux tbh. Most of the 'issues' are simply personal preferences, meaningless complaints about random comments on the internet, or Linus not being able to read. Real issues like missing hardware compatibility need to be pointed out, but there is little the Linux community can do about that. It's on the hardware manufacturer to actually make drivers that work well on Linux for a certain product. It's clear that they didn't give it a lot of thought before making these videos. Simply put: If you only care about maximum hardware and software compatibility and maximum FPS in all your games (like Linus seems to do), Linux is simply not for you. I use Linux because of three strengths: Freedom, privacy and security. I like having an operatings system that is safe by default, that I can change according to my needs and preferences, that doesn't hand-hold the user and that doesn't spy on me and data mines my every move or tries to force down the latest Microsoft (or Apple for that matter) BS down my throat. I have a dual boot of Windows 10 if some game doesn't run perfectly on Linux, which is about the only thing that I use it for at this point.
Kieran Prije mjesec
@Max Arendorff I get that, but I daily-drove Linux when I was at school. (Ubuntu 12.04 LTS on an old WinXP machine, and dual-booting with Wubi on an old laptop handed down to me by my parents) Online, when you see people complaining about Windows reboots, especially in the early days of Windows 10 before the automatic, adaptive Active Hours and the maximum increased to 18 hours from 12, I remember seeing lots of people saying to switch to Linux as you don't need to reboot it after an update, and it's that mindset that Linux can be used, in its current state, by most computer users, that this series is trying to challenge.
joe bruh
joe bruh Prije mjesec
I really like this critical take on linux for end users. I personally use linux as my daily driver for almost everything, and saying the switch from windows to linux was painless would be a lie. there are speedbumps with linux, no matter what way you slice it. be it ubuntu or arch there is still setup involved that wouldn't be required normally with windows.
coolthingy the third
Its the same thing with windows and installing older games on it. Most gamers though expect that, most people don't expect these things on linux though since people keep suggesting that linux is better then windows and its less work then using windows which is a yes and no sort of deal
Dennis Jungbauer
Dennis Jungbauer Prije 16 dana
@VavrMar I agree with you (last comment), but with Linux distros it's not just basic terminology and understanding, but it goes pretty deep and I'm pretty sure you can't use a Linux distro (for more than basic browsing) without researching things more in-depth, which you usually can on Windows. But well, with more power comes more responsibility, right? But in any case things need to be more accessible and better supported. Oh, and for fucks sake: Yes, some people put no effort in or are actually dumb, but the community shouldn't be so toxic and have some more empathy and be helpful! Don't just think everyone is a moron or tried nothing at all, and even if something obvious to you hasn't been done, try to control your temper and ask, maybe the user just missed/forgot something, but actually _did_ try.
VavrMar Prije mjesec
@Brad Holder yes it's 2021 those "majority" should finally start learning sth about computers. Eg like Facebook or IE is not Internet...
Fritz Prije mjesec
@Fredrik Byström Try some "Network Chuck" linux videos, he's an excellent teacher, entertaining, and takes things fairly slowly.
Brad Holder
Brad Holder Prije mjesec
I had the same feeling about it. It's why I eventually just googled wtf it was. "OH, Super User DO.. got it... elevated command.." But still.. In a world where the vast majority of us are used to right clicking and running as administrator, or even automatically having the prompt occur on Windows or macOS, they need to either do one of those minitutorial bits while it installs, or change it to be more intuitive. It's fucking 2021. Act like it.
Nick Lavigne
Nick Lavigne Prije mjesec
When done, I'd like to see a version with Anthony, starting from scratch. I'd like to see the difference.
James Owens
James Owens Prije 15 dana
@Joo where has "official support" landed us exactly?
Gilad Barlev
Gilad Barlev Prije 17 dana
I'm actually curious to see the complete inverse: take someone who has never used Windows, having only daily driven OSX or Linux, and see how long it takes them to get set up gaming on Windows and keep everything running and up-to-date for a month. Will it be as much of a challenge? Probably not. But as someone whose last Windows daily driver ran XP *when it was new* I can tell you I'd have a hard time not being able to install essentials from trusted sources via apt-get or brew install.
Kieran Prije mjesec
@Tom Spettigue Luke also has daily-driven Linux before, so he already has experience and knows the things he needs to do a bit more, but this is Linus's first time with Linux. Both perspectives are important, as it's showing exactly what even technically-minded folks who no nothing about Linux would encounter when following the cries of "Your PC doesn't support Windows 11? Just switch to Linux!" cries.
1 1
1 1 Prije mjesec
@zoqaeski "usually"
sam gumin
sam gumin Prije mjesec
he installs arch
AbnormallyNormal //
AbnormallyNormal // Prije mjesec
Man, I really miss seeing Luke in normal LTT videos. His cadence is so calming
Sierra LVX
Sierra LVX Prije mjesec
I agree, his voice is like a soft carpet!
doodad Prije mjesec
Yep. Luke was, and still is, a very balancing force to Linus. The two of them work so well together it's insane. I get WHY Luke transitioned to FloatPlane, but it was definitely a loss to the that side of the business, IMO.
filereaper Prije mjesec
Screensharing is a mess for experienced users as well on Linux, as its going through a transition from X11 to Wayland, Wayland is using Pipewire and proprietary NVidia drivers don't support this as well. So even as someone who daily drives Linux, I emphasize with the difficulties that Luc and Linus are going through here.
Go 2 Evolution
Go 2 Evolution Prije mjesec
Wayland isn't using anything. It's just a protocol and there are different implementations.
Ronwe TheFallen
Ronwe TheFallen Prije mjesec
I like how things randomly fixing themselves is an ongoing thing with these two, and as a linux user, I can say that this is absolutely my experience as well.
Patrick Star
Patrick Star Prije 9 dana
Happens on MacOS too.
Kleyguerth Prije mjesec
@Michael Gosling The opposite also happens on windows: stuff works, but then you reboot...
Michael Gosling
Michael Gosling Prije mjesec
That's my windows experience. With linux, as long as I don't install anything nothing changes. but then you run a package upgrade and you're not mindful enough about the updates and one of the tweaks your environment relies on gets removed or causes a conflict and the whole thing shits the bed.
Chris McClain
Chris McClain Prije mjesec
The "doesn't work/leave it broken/now it works" cycle has been about half my experience with Linux. The other half is "does work/leave it working/ now it's broken".
Useless Duck Company
The reaction videos from the Linux community on Part 1 were surprisingly nice and polite
1 1
1 1 Prije mjesec
​@marceelino Yep, you're completely right, I'm deeply ashamed.
marceelino Prije mjesec
@1 1 I know i won, now are you trying to hide your shame by replying with completely irrelevant information to our conversation. You lost your argument, leave it be.
1 1
1 1 Prije mjesec
@marceelino Yep, you win, completely obliterated. 2021 is the year of Linux desktop when it's finally steps over 1.5% market share.
marceelino Prije mjesec
@1 1 hard to swallow that you lost your argument with such an easy reply from my side.
1 1
1 1 Prije mjesec
​@marceelino Denial is deep with this one.
Tucker Pelletier
Tucker Pelletier Prije mjesec
Disclaimer I'm a developer/software engineer, and I love linux for what it does for me and what it allows me to do. However, I do agree with a lot of the experiences that Linus, and Luke have found. There are some experiences that are buggy and annoying on Linux. The Desktop experience has gotten a lot better over the years, but still has a long way to go. While I am capable of doing a lot in the command line, some things are better done in a GUI, and even as a developer I do appreciate when things just work. Although as a developer and some of the horrors I've seen it's a miracle any of it ever works, although I digress. I do appreciate that you Linus and Luke have done this challenge, and published the issues you've found, as you have a louder voice, which can effect change to make things better. I hope that in the future you periodically take on the challenge again because I think it's good for the community. While Linux's varied distributions are a double-edged sword, it is that power that give it the potential to be a powerful tool for a lot of different uses. While I'm not a hardcore gamer, I do think that Linux definitely has the potential to eventually become a contender, if it has the right backers, and irons out the issues you encountered. I would never expect a normy to use GitHub(web GUI for Git)/Git(command line based, although there are GUis), it is a wonderful powerful developer version control tooll, with a bit of a learnig curve. That said the right click save as, and get HTML crap is a browser thing, that can be an annoyance and the workarround aways requires a few more clicks to get to the raw text, that you can then download/copy. What might be a better way to do things in these cases whould be to click the button to download the git repo as a zip file, and copy the file out of that, as you probably don't care about the history of the files, that you would get from using git to clone the repo locally. The old adage "Have you tried turning it off and on again." While is less applicable to Linux, and there are usually ways to work around it, there are still places where it does apply. One thing I always do is enable Ctrl+Alt+Backspace to restart the GUI because on rare occasion I have had Linux freeze on me(usually my own fault tinkering to get something to work). Another case that I've found this applies for me is with my work's VPN, which has iffy Linux support, and every once in a while it decides to not connect. Ive tried killing and restarting the process to no avail, although restarting the whole darn computer does works. So with that VPN something gets in a stuck state, but I have yet to discover what or how to reset it. At this point I just see it at the tax my employer pays for choosing that VPN. A note to Luke I unfortunately have to use Teams for work, we were just switch from Google chat(Gchat) much to my chagrin. The app is absolute buggy trash, and I don't use it. The web interface is better and more stable and seems to do what I need it to, just in several more clicks, and in a more cluttered UI than Gchat. I have used slack in the recent past and found it better for chat, but video features are a little limited and require the app which is a resource hog. For video chat/screen sharing the best that I've used on Linux is Zoom, although Gchat was decent as well. Although I've found that all video chat/desktop share has, and probabbly always will have hicups no matter what OS/app combination I use.
PQED Prije mjesec
In my opinion what (I think?) many view as Linux biggest strength, I believe is really its' biggest weakness: fragmentation. Too many different distros that specialize in different things, thus making it virtually impossible to replace the likes of Windows. Now, I usually go with Debian-based distros whenever I do give it a try (as i understand they're supposed to be the most beginner-friendly(?)), so I don't know if that's part of the problem: but I've always been astounded by how easy it is to break the OS and make it unbootable or otherwise broken to the point of becoming unusable, just by following one or more guides that happen to be outdated (often there's no good way to know, and sometimes they are actually up-to-date and still don't yield the promised results), and on top of that, few of said guides even explain what all the commands are actually doing, so reversing whatever damage has been done quickly becomes difficult (or nearly impossible for someone of my skill level). Unless you're willing to begin again, that is. It has been a couple of years since I last gave it a try, but judging from the video many of the problems I ran into in the past are still there. Other than that I feel that these videos have done a good job of demonstrating why Linux isn't likely to become a proper replacement for Windows for a long time yet; if ever, which is saddening, because if it was I would've ditched this mega-corp OS already, and I believe that goes for a lot of people out there. Just my take on the matter.
Clo Dufour
Clo Dufour Prije mjesec
Tbh it's an issue in and of itself that most people will not know that different distros use different package managers. And actually, with how much diversity there is amongst Linux distros and flavours, I don't think it's quite right anymore to treat every Linux based OS equally. They can be *very* different even if they're based around the same kernel. For example immutable distros are sorta slowly becoming more of a thing (I'm thinking of NixOS and Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite flavour, mainly), and those can be very different to manage than say, good ol' Debian or Arch. The sheer amount of things you have to take into consideration before you even begin using Linux honestly looks super discouraging from an outsider point of view, and it's not surprising that someone who doesn't know enough already will end up picking a distro where they expect things to work a certain way because that's how they think all Linux distros work, and then end up not working.
Clo Dufour
Clo Dufour Prije mjesec
@Fredrik Byström Yw!
Fredrik Byström
Fredrik Byström Prije mjesec
@Clo Dufour Oh okay, I think I understand. Thanks for the explanation!
Clo Dufour
Clo Dufour Prije mjesec
@Fredrik Byström So all Linux distros use the same executable format, called ELF (Windows uses PE, macOS uses Mach-O). It doesn't actually have a specific file extension associated with it. It's the way those executables are packaged that changes. Essentially the "traditional Linux way" of packaging software is to let the system package manager handle dependencies, rather than the Windows way which is to just include dependencies in the installer. So for example, Firefox uses GTK+ for their GUI library, and a package manager would be in charge of checking all of Firefox's dependenceis, and making sure that they're all available and installed before installing Firefox. It's a way to "centralise" dependency management, among other things, so if you then install other software that also depend on GTK+ the package manager will know that it's already installed because of Firefox. And then different distros use different package managers, like Debian uses .deb packaged files, managed by dpkg, and Ubuntu is a distro derived from Debian and uses the same. But on the other hand, Fedora and RHEL both use .rpm package files and dnf to manage them. And you also have more "exotic" package managers, like Nix or ostree, which works in a completely different manner, where the system is immutable, and package installations are instead treated as "overlays" that you can easily backup, restore, swap out, etc.
Fredrik Byström
Fredrik Byström Prije mjesec
I switched my laptop to Linux yesterday and just had to look up what a "package manager" is. If I understand it correctly, it's like the Linux version of a .exe file? So different types of Linux use different types of executable file formats? Like Ubuntu uses .ubu and Debian uses .deb or something like that?
S3frog Prije mjesec
I really like this series and I hope it continues to bring positive change to Linux. That being said, I will remain a dual boot user for the time being.
Dead Baron
Dead Baron Prije mjesec
"We don't know what fixed it, but that's cool, I guess" - My IT career in a nutshell
MR RANDOM Prije 10 dana
Dennis Jungbauer
Dennis Jungbauer Prije 16 dana
@Your Boi JP I relate to that as well, except the "couldn't care less" part. 😅 I want to know why or how things work and actually spend some time diving into things even after it fixed itself - I'm curious what the issue was in the first place and want to be able to properly fix it and not just wait for the next time this might pop up again. Needless to say I _did_ waste time already by not being able to find the reason or the reason being something external that _has_ been fixed, but I do have piece of mind then.
Lena Hartmann
Lena Hartmann Prije mjesec
“Bug couldn’t be reproduced” *ticket closed*
redX Prije mjesec
So sad, so true xD
Ryan Fox
Ryan Fox Prije mjesec
@Your Boi JP it's also enjoyable when it works in the opposite manner. Notice some code that some how runs, despite all logical reasoning, then the next time you run it it decides to stop working.
Loli's mc
Loli's mc Prije 17 dana
As a person who uses linux, this was very fun to watch, especially when messing around with the system😁
Don. Timeless
Don. Timeless Prije mjesec
If this series continues, Linux will get superb that may in the near future will be the dominant OS that make life easier, fun & affordable (Linux users don't be cheap & donate annually what you can). Because Devs will listen to these videos that have been watched by millions of viewers! Thank you so much Linus Thank you so much Luke Thank you so much LTT Team
jimmy Ryan
jimmy Ryan Prije mjesec
Im a linux user and dont disagree with anything here. There needs to be more user testing like this and more calling out compaies who dont support their products on it, or at least put a big windows only sticker on their products.
MechanicalMonk Prije mjesec
This feels like all the issues I would be having if I started using Linux this year. We used to have to deal with a whole other set of issues back in the day and by comparison this feels like a cakewalk but the experience is still pretty bad
Blackraven Prije 28 dana
This series inspired me to switch to Mint! This is the first HRburn video I'm watching on Linux!
Tom Kuhl
Tom Kuhl Prije mjesec
I give both of you props for doing this. I know when I started using Linux as my daily driver I had all these same type of issues.
Evanx373 Prije mjesec
I just downloaded mint yesterday and so far haven’t had a lot of issues with it. Got wine, proton, and lupis I think it’s called up and running. I’ve only had trouble with a couple games that rely on easy anti cheat. Minecraft runs better on Linux than my windows install so far.I may keep Linux just for Minecraft if anything. Especially if I can get shaders to run better on here than on windows
Zubin Parihar
Zubin Parihar Prije mjesec
Great job. This video actually really helped the Linux community in general.
Cacoe Prije mjesec
Linus consciously chose that font on his desktop. Let that fact sink in for a moment.
Exazebra Prije mjesec
My feelings are starting to get angry
Terrobility Prije mjesec
@AwesoomeNinja No it's not. Dyslexia fonts are often heavy on the bottom. This is just a regular cursive font.
Jacob Runyan
Jacob Runyan Prije mjesec
@AwesoomeNinja OpenDyslexic is bolder at the bottom of the letters, this is not a dyslexic font.
Felipemelazzi Prije mjesec
@Fred Wupkensöppel Thank you! 🤣 You have no idead how much I laughed out of this. I could totally imagine the scene and the professor's face expression. It's been a while since I had 2 solid minutes of laughter and I even screencaptured it to stumble upon it some day. I've always wondered why the taskbar could stretch so high up and now I have my answer XD
Strict on budget
Strict on budget Prije mjesec
jackass sergeeevich
jackass sergeeevich Prije mjesec
13:20 Linus has a point. It's certainly a bad experience coming from Windows to Linux and discovering that half of your software just isn't there or it is there but behaves badly. But if I were to switch to Windows from Linux right now I would experience the same issues. I doubt that I could get something like i3, rofi/dmenu working on Windows. And (and I know, it's funny) I don't think that native Linux-only games would behave differently compared to Windows-only games running on Linux. So I think most problems are coming from the manufacturers or developers just ignoring Linux as a desktop, plus personal bias about software that you are used to.
shiffterCL Prije mjesec
yeah like who the fuck uses teams.
jezz2k Prije mjesec
I haven't had much luck getting Windows games to work in Linux. Sure, there's Steam, but most of my games are physical copies and freeware portable downloads (unzip and play). Wine and Play on Linux are more miss than hit.
Kleyguerth Prije mjesec
This. I had to copy files from a windows machine to another, my first instinct was: rsync! Oh wait.. no rsync on windows... (actually there is, but the rsync server is paid) Let's try SCP! Started the native openSSH service on the first computer, opened winSCP on the other... no deal, it expects bash, openSSH on windows does not give you bash. So I opened wsl, started sshd, and connected through that, then it all worked, with a really slow transfer rate. I'm sure a windows expert would do it in a better, more reliable way, but coming from linux that was my first instinct and it worked out in the end, with a lot of pain.
Build Theory
Build Theory Prije mjesec
I’ve had very similar experiences with linux. I have this old laptop that I decided I wanted to repurpose to use in my garage while working on my project cars for viewing repair manuals, playing youtube videos, and listening to music. I felt like it was a perfect use case, take an old slow laptop that I dont want to pay for a new version of windows on and give it a lightweight free OS for simple everyday use. There were some things that worked amazing out of the box and other things that were just incomprehensibly difficult. I still havent been able to get my bluetooth speaker connected to the laptop to use for music. To view my factory repair manuals I had to install a windows VM, which was somewhat expected and honestly much easier than expected considering I am a complete newb when it comes to VM’s. Very interesting to also watch someone else go through this and have similar experiences where it goes from “wow that was very simple” to “how is that possibly the solution and why” even to “I just cant figure this out”. Hopefully these videos help make linux more user friendly for everyone, I genuinely feel like there are very useful newbie use cases for linux but the barrier to entry can sometimes just be a little to high. 👍
hippynurd Prije mjesec
I hope you do get things working in linux. Ive recently started gaming again, and I had to setup a windows computer to do it, Normally you have to pay me to use windows, its just awful and painful for me to use it, macs are a little better, but Linux always does what I want and is very efficient and effective about it. So, anyway, ive been using windows for a little over a year just for gaming, thats the only thing I do with that computer, all the rest of my computers run linux, and thats how I like it, so if there is a way I can dump windows for gaming, I can free up the gaming computer to also do video editing and other things
Joe C.
Joe C. Prije mjesec
I hope a non-intimidating tutorial series for replacing Windows 11 with Linux from LMG is in the works. I have been wanting to switch for sometime but find it really difficult to become confident with Linux. Wouldnt even know which OS to begin with. Seems like you just gotta pick one and start but from part 1 it feels like you pick one and then down the road realize its not the right one. I also find github to be intimidating and lacking instruction. I hope linux gets to be as friendly as windows 10, I would switch to a stable linux distro over windows 11. I would love to b able to use a raspberry pi as daily driver. the possibilities are endless when you know how to use linux properly.
Opti Prije mjesec
i practically grew up using Windows, especially 10 through my teenage years, and I'm more adept at using it than literally anyone else i know then i tried linux, and honestly, it's just painful, even for advanced distros like Manjaro. Windows just... works (though maaany people would argue otherwise) With Linux, things just feel and work so differently, and tasks that are easy in Windows become trivial for Linux. anyone can use Windows without having to type a single line of script, and i don't think the same can be said for Linux
Yura Mocherniuk
Yura Mocherniuk Prije mjesec
Thank you for the contribution to GNU/Linux ecosystem! Spreading the word about user experience and common issues/annoyances helps to raise awareness about current state of the Linux desktop and take the right steps in direction of making things a lot more enjoyable and simple for the end users.
Growlizing Prije mjesec
I am a long time linux user and am happy that you are doing this as a proper effort. Thank you for being realistic.
omemester Prije mjesec
The open containing folddr issue is because you're using the snap version. Same happens with vscode. Install the regular version using the package manager or .deb file and it should work fine.
ok ok
ok ok Prije mjesec
9:24 canary testing is a special kind of testing where you deploy your changes to a hand full of people and if everything works fine you roll it out to more and more people until you deploy it to all users. so its like a test-version / beta
ThePyCoder Prije mjesec
As a long time Linux user, it's really nice to see it be used from such a new-user perspective. Every thing they encountered I have too at some point, I just don't notice anymore. Really need to watch out how much I try to sell Linux to people. Awesome video!
Paul Frederick
Paul Frederick Prije mjesec
Never talk people into running Linux. If they should run Linux then they should have the sense to figure that out for themselves. If they can't even do that they definitely shouldn't be running Linux!
Crumbz McChip
Crumbz McChip Prije mjesec
@Tinker Bear Literally the reason I switched to Ubuntu, got tired of MS breaking my damn PC when it updates! My favourite was waking up to find that a windows update had broke my network drivers and sound drivers irreparably without internet access on that PC... :/
Hellbow Prije mjesec
@Your FBI Agent There are more games than not that don't need a VM. Mainly ones with anti-cheat software.
Curtis Murphy
Curtis Murphy Prije mjesec
@orclev Audio is a mess. I have a specific issue where if another user is logged in to the machine I'm unable to switch the audio output to a Bluetooth device. I can switch between analog and HDMI output but not to Bluetooth. Logging them out manually fixes the issue (which I should be able to do from the GUI... But that's another gripe). Still, it shouldn't be an issue to switch to my Bluetooth headphones if my wife is logged in.
orclev Prije mjesec
I'd say the only thing I can really fault him for is complaining about Github. Github, as he points out, is designed for developers, and it makes decisions based on making things simpler for developers. I'd say the takeaway isn't "Linux is only for developers since I can't get this specific device working without using a developer tool" so much as it's "You just might not be able to use some hardware in Linux without jumping through some absurd hoops so if you plan on using Linux pick your hardware carefully". As Lukes experience shows, if you have certain kinds of devices things can be just as simple and straightforward as in Windows (and sometimes even simpler), but that's going to vary wildly by the kind of hardware you have. If you have specifically picked devices taking into consideration their support for Linux (or devices known to have community drivers for things like E.G. Logitech unifying receivers), then you're going to have a significantly simpler time, than if you just throw whatever random peripherals at Linux and expect it to work. Linux is REALLY good these days at supporting most core devices like GPUs, soundcards, etc. but once you start venturing into more esoteric peripherals (particularly anything not totally bog standard that plugs in via USB) you're rapidly going to start running into problems. Pretty much all my Logitech devices seem to work normally under Linux, or at least as well as they do under OS X, but I've definitely had devices by other manufacturers that just flat out do not work. It would be great to see more Linux support from peripheral manufacturers (and there actually are quite a few that have great Linux support, particularly for devices aimed at developers), but if a devices target demographic is gamers or content creators it's unfortunately highly likely that if it can even be made to work in Linux, it will be a very rudimentary experience that's going to be incredibly non-user-friendly. Sometimes those devices won't even work in OS X, although at this point most manufacturers at least grudgingly include support for OS X. As for the other issues they've run into, the state of audio drivers in Linux is currently insane. There was a time when things were pretty straightforward, you had ALSA, and that was pretty much it. It had some issues, and there were things it didn't do, but it was generally very straightforward and just worked. These days you have ALSA, PulseAudio, PipeWire, and even a few more crazier niche pieces of audio software, and trying to understand how they all fit together and are configured is daunting even to long time Linux users.
Michel Martins Zigaib
I though I was never going to see something like this happening as a Linux user is a fresh look in to it, thanks for that.
MineJarok Prije mjesec
This series is so good! I hope Linux will get better after this...
bluehawk232 Prije mjesec
In conjunction with the gaming side of things, I'm curious how you find Linux managing your system resources as compared to Windows. My understanding is Linux distros are often less resource intensive compared to Windows so shouldn't that lead to a better gaming experience as the OS isn't hogging as much CPU or RAM, etc
Simon Buchan
Simon Buchan Prije mjesec
A common problem is comparing "ram in use" with nothing running, and thinking lower is better. If anyone makes a statement like this, it's a safe bet you can ignore anything they say about performance. OS performance and resource allocation at the application level is an extremely fiddly, basically impossible to usefully measure field. The state of the art is measuring game FPS etc, which is at least as much the driver and game port quality. Lower level you have some much clearer results: Linux is far more efficient and faster at file system (eg list directories, open files) and processes, while Windows is far more efficient and faster at file io (read and writing already open files) and threading. The result of this is Linux software that's optimized for lots of files and processes runs like a three legged dog when ported directly to Windows. Linux is starting to catch up on thread scheduling and adding faster io apis though, and it is unlikely Windows can do the same in the other direction for a few reasons (though I'd love to see it)
Azerty Prije mjesec
@Michael M power usage for one having more spare resources avail generally makes EVERYTHING run smoother for example, by not having more windows background processes i can run games like cyberpunk way easier (of course without proper RTX because Nvidia is not a good company) or just browsing is much smoother for me, bootup times are way quicker etc etc; by using less bloatware resources your just freeing everything else up for everything important.
Michael M
Michael M Prije mjesec
Only if your usage was needing those extra resources. If you have high specs and like 32gb of RAM, then it wouldn't make much difference
6942069 Prije mjesec
Different distros use different builds of programs. This means that installing the same software across multiple distributions and in multiple ways can give wildly different versions. Different builds can also have different features enabled or disabled. In many ways, trying to jam Linux into your existing infrastructure can be frustrating. Running Linux requires searching for hardware that is supported properly. It's absolutely a chore and severely limiting. But that's not necessarily on Linux itself.
Insomniul Prije mjesec
I think Linux community would do everything to prevent the possibility that one distro could become so popular/dominant to de facto set standard ways of doing things and that's also the main reason why it's so user unfriendly.
Almin Helex
Almin Helex Prije mjesec
FINALLY! The only problem I have with these episodes are they are too short!
Aron Septianto
Aron Septianto Prije mjesec
@James yeah, that's like the point of the series... to see if it's now viable enough I feel like you're missing the point here
Felipe Rodríguez
Felipe Rodríguez Prije mjesec
My guess is the floatplane is a little longer, that way you support ltt too
Shivam Thakur
Shivam Thakur Prije mjesec
@James That's not the point of this video my guy. The main focus of this series is to see whether it is possible to switch over to Linux for a whole month and have a smooth sailing experience. It's a challenge kind of video between Linus and Luke.
MeelaVuelongtime Prije mjesec
@James not sure what to tell you, mate. That's what they're doing (hence the name of the series). I guess just give these a skip. But, I think it is worth noting that Linux is getting a lot more love from the games industry than it ever has before. I agree that it is nowhere near Windows, but particularly with Valve's emphasis on Linux, it seems like the day may eventually come that it is an actually viable option, imho Eta: devs don't have to choose one or the other. Linux just has to be popular enough to make it worth the extra effort of supporting it. It's already getting more native releases than ever, so reaching that point isn't totally unrealistic
James Prije mjesec
@MeelaVuelongtime That day won’t come until Linux operating systems are everyone’s choice. When more people use Linux than don’t. Game developers will focus on supporting them, as there will be more money to be made. Just like nefarious people primarily write viruses for windows, it would be nowhere near as efficient targeting other operating systems. It’s all about money and to think that Linux would ever be a more favourable choice than Windows for gaming is really stupid, and if this is the point in this series, it’s a waste of time.
Andrew Stombaugh
Andrew Stombaugh Prije mjesec
These (software mentioned in the video) are great examples of just how much passion and community support can accomplish. So much of this software is manifestations of hours of time from people who cared enough to put some code together. When I first started out in Linux, in every frustration I faced, I always asked myself: "How much did I pay for this?" And then I was humbled down to a proper mindset on moving forward to search for a solution. 🙂 Stick with it! We need more videos like this!
Lahzy Prije mjesec
Love these videos! Hope it helps getting things fixed on Linux :)
CubicleNate Prije mjesec
I think this was a pretty fair review. You have purchased the best of hardware with all the bells and whistles because you are professionals in what you do. I totally get that. I tend to ONLY buy things I know have Linux support, at least, acceptable Linux support, so I don't run into these problems. I "vote with my wallet," as it were. I am taking this as you had a pretty fantastic experience so far. So, well done! :)
VavrMar Prije mjesec
Thanks a lot Linus for giving space also to Linux and popularizing it! Only think which I don't like is lot of troubles is caused by manufacturers or authors of SW but it sounds that it's all fault of linux. It'd be good next time to put a bit more emphasis to differentiate what is problem of OS and HW SH creator. Coz imo biggest linux problem is ignorance of manufacturers. And if you take into an account that bug amount of those scripts and drivers on github are created by people in their free time without being paid it seems to me a bit unfair to blame system.
hi hello
hi hello Prije mjesec
Fortunately and unfortunately, all of these problems seem to be almost entirely not inherent to linux, but inherent to a lack of platform support. A lack of support leads to less people using said platform and then less of an interest in supporting the platform. A catch 22 that I don't know if linux can pull itself out of.
Paul Frederick
Paul Frederick Prije mjesec
@GimmickMusic I hear Pop!_OS uses DPKG so it cannot be all bad.
GimmickMusic Prije mjesec
Precisely this. It’s a really unfortunate is that may be a loop that Linux wont be able to break free from. I can understand developers’ hesitancy to develop for Linux. It’s already a niche market, and I’d imagine that it’s impossible to develop and test on all distros of Linux. At best, we could expect support for bigger distros like Ubuntu, Arch, Debian, Mint, and/or Pop. (I know that Pop is relatively new, but it’s definitely one of the most user friendly experiences that I’ve seen).
Curated Memes
Curated Memes Prije mjesec
​@verb "Software made for windows is garbage" some windows software are garbage, some aren't; it really depends and it makes exactly no sense to apply a blanket statement here unless you have some sort of evidence to prove what you're saying has any basis in reality "Shitty programming languages" shitty programming languages can and are used to develop applications for linux also, i would like to know what you consider a "shitty programming language" "over reliance on libraries" i might agree with you, but until you show a way to quantify the existence of an "over-reliance on libraries" for windows software in general, it means absolutely nothing "interpreted languages"? like python? which gets used *all the time* on non-Window's OSes? "installation process on windows is a joke" this i wholeheartedly agree with
Paul Frederick
Paul Frederick Prije mjesec
Trust me us Linux users are doing just fine now.
hi hello
hi hello Prije mjesec
@3nertia Yep, thats why I'm glad that LTT is doing this. Distros that claim to be user friendly don't have enough pressure from external sources to innovate and bug fix in the way we are seeing now. It doesn't matter what LTT says or does on linux that may end up looking bad to a viewerbase, desktop linux can only move forward from its failures.
bofooit gojo
bofooit gojo Prije mjesec
The reaction videos from the Linux community on Part 1 were surprisingly nice and polite
Thies Patrick Ohme
Thies Patrick Ohme Prije mjesec
9:26 Canary is one of the public beta versions. It could be unstable sometimes, but it works
MrSnapphanen Prije mjesec
This is the best content on LTT of all time. It is a shame the videos are so short!
JanTube Prije mjesec
Great video! Does anyone know if Elementary OS would have been much more comfortable and easy to use our of the box?
Dave Chiluk
Dave Chiluk Prije mjesec
As someone who's daily driven Linux for 15 years, I volunteer to do this same series with a Mac or Windows box. I'm sure it would go similarly.
TBi Prije mjesec
I remember being told Linux never crashes, which I found out was basically true for the kernel. However X11/Xwindows crashed as regularly as windows (98 at the time), making you lose any work you were doing. So from an end user viewpoint stability was the same... but hey at least Linux kernel hadn't crashed so I used ctrl+alt+f2 to open a second terminal to restart X.
Raven Surf
Raven Surf Prije mjesec
Your videos are making impact, for normal linux users, who want to game on linux. 👍👍
Kae Prije mjesec
Please continue this serie, I am a linux user since years, and it could help to give motivation to some devs to make things "easier" in distributions. The lack of hardware support is because there is a small percentage of users that use linux, and the reason: Linux users, shitty elitist mentality, never trying to make things simple, gatekeeping and keeping people aways, and that's because of them it's still like that, that's the kind of people who would come here to roast you, they don't want linux distributions to be better and more accessible because it would hurt them in their elitism to see "normies" trying to get in their secret club. That's all because of that, and I blame them for all these problems, like shitty drivers, lack of support for games etc...It's their fault, the problem are these people. I want to see things being more accessible, to have better drivers, to have more native linux games, to have more intuitive stuff and more "assist mode". I want all that, I don't use linux to be 1337, it's just because I like that and I hate to see these people speaking for the majority (they are not) and ruining everything since decades. So please continue, you expose obvious problems, and that's a good thing, thank you for using your visibility for that. Have a nice day.
MaTIb Prije mjesec
I'm really greatful that linus had that "how do I run a .sh file" moment, because while it's incredibly simple once you learn how to do it, many forget that it's a skill you have to learn at some point, and those really add up over time. And if Linus, who is really is well versed in tech, didn't know how to do it right out of the get go, it is clearly not "common knowlage" as I often see posted online. Yes, you eventually get used to googling something, running into a stack overflow post that leads into a github page, downloading a script and running it, but every single one of those steps require you getting used to them, reading through lingo and trusting a random stranger on the internet. If there's anything you taught your grandparents when they started using a PC was that you are not supposed to do that: you don't download and run random files that you get on the first search result.
Aizen Sosuke
Aizen Sosuke Prije mjesec
What's weird is how this sounds even shadier than installing a Windows program. Oh, just run this randoms cript on some rando github and hope everything works. I thought Linux was against that kind of stuff?
Adam shep
Adam shep Prije mjesec
@Oopy Doopy If you have an old hardware that windows does not support your in the same boat. fruitless searches online and utilities that ask for money and don't deliver in the end. Computers can be frustrating in general when things go wrong.
Vilu FML
Vilu FML Prije mjesec
This entire reply section answers the 'why do you think the Linux community is toxic?' question. Something (or someone) ALWAYS happen.
DannyBeans Prije mjesec
@Philip Worthington Also, I'd add "well *I* never had that problem" to the list of all-too-common unhelpful answers.
MechanicallyDev Prije mjesec
To be fair this is a dumb way of doing permissions. Windows handles it way better. Just show a popup saying this maybe be dangerous and let the user choose if they want to execute or not, without having to enter the terminal to run a command that they don't understand. The problem with linux is that it expects every user to understand the implications of what they are doing without actually properly informing the user.
Marvin Roman
Marvin Roman Prije mjesec
As a Linux user I really enjoy your videos. It reminds me of my early days in Linux and the frustration I had. It’s not for everybody, although I hope that changes as the community grows. But it’s been worth the experimentation because now I can build a platform that works how I work and game.
Miles Menninga
Miles Menninga Prije mjesec
As someone who has started daily driving Linux (for work education being in IT and out of curiosity) I can say that the learning curve is definitely steep and the "help" is very here and there. BUT after something comes together and just works it's awesome. I don't think it's for everyone but it can be worth the hassle, if you are into tourturing yourself until you learn all the ropes to be a Linux Master.
JT Mopar
JT Mopar Prije mjesec
You guys are confirming that me switching to Linux Mint three-ish years ago was the right option for Linux.
Aakash Kapoor
Aakash Kapoor Prije mjesec
So what I am seeing here is that manufacturers need to give more love to Linux for drivers. That solves most issues. The remaining come to force of habit : It took people time to learn Windows, it takes time to learn macOS, and so it will also take time to learn Linux (all OSes have their own quirks). But considering how simple these problems are compared to the situation 10 years ago, I mean this is great progress for the Linux desktop. Also, Linus should have started off with Ubuntu/Fedora and used the official Software Store apps to actually install stuff. Would have been super easy without half these problems. Arch is something that even I, an experienced user, don't drive daily because of how much effort you have to put in yourself. Luke was having a better time courtesy of using Linux Mint (Ubuntu derivative). That said, Linux does need proprietary app support and wider hardware support, esp. from NVIDIA
RealFlicke Prije mjesec
It wouldn't solve all important problems though. DE's are still a buggy inconsistent mess and many GUIs have a bad usability
The Mup
The Mup Prije mjesec
Linus on Pop os: "I shouldn't have to use the terminal to install software" Linus on Manjaro: *Ignores app store and goes straight to terminal*
WR3ND Prije mjesec
@Jesse G Fair enough.
MrStevetmq Prije mjesec
It's called "learning" A person has a problem "how to install software". They try it one way, another or read how to do it. That way might be to go the terminal. If that works then they have learnt it works and so next time they want to install software, thats the way they will start with. Spending time looking around for difference from one distro to another is not something that none geeks do and in this case Linus is putting him self in the place of "how would a none geek do" but at the same time he does have a brain that learns geeknis. As for "app store" in my experience, they never have what I want and so the first thing I install is synaptic.
Jesse G
Jesse G Prije mjesec
@WR3ND yeah, I've already unsubscribed. Can't take technology advice from someone who has an obvious bias like that. Besides, I'm also tired of him bragging about how much money he's making by being an idiot.
WR3ND Prije mjesec
@Jesse G Well, you know, we all have our bad days sometimes. lol He still has some time to redeem himself as their "challenge" is still going. We'll see.
denis vozian
denis vozian Prije mjesec
@Allen Natian a normal Iser would go straight to the appstore and not the terminal…
NoTMe Prije mjesec
After watching the video the title seems a little misleading considering it seems like you both have gotten everything you guys want or need to game and even stream in Linux while freeing yourself from Microsoft data harvesting your entire life daily. Good job an stick with it,you'll both be Linux fluent in no time where these all seem like silly problems down the road.
zeonos Prije mjesec
I get low battery warnings for my MX Keys in pop os. The main issue with linux, is that the support by manufactors and develors is so poor, so linux have to do all the work to try and get things running. If AAA studios and developers started making linux versions of the software/games then linux would quickly capture market share.
Max Noname
Max Noname Prije mjesec
Having used linux basically my entire life I am surprised how many flaws are still down to proprietary software/hardware having no official linux support or if they have it's terribly implemented (i.e. Nvidia). And I have seen linux do some weird stuff, but for example the steam issue seem so weird to me. Like I absolutely positively love that I can have a fully installed OS in 10 minutes where Windows installs have always been clunky, needlessly complex and take so much time. Installing software is also such a breeze where in Windows I first have to search where I can get the installer from, possibly even the right installer for my system and then execute a basically unknown and untrusted executable. Same with updates: if an application doesn't notify me of an update how am I supposed to keep them all up to date? By now most of them do but it's still a hassle to run after each application to do an update. And yes, restarting also helps on Linux. But just because you did an update you don't have to restart five time (looking at you, windows)
Roger Fleming
Roger Fleming Prije mjesec
I hope the Linux community watched this series of videos and took notes. I think you guys are too hard-core of users to do all the stuff on Linux you typically do on Windows, but the value of your experiences to the Linux community could be great! I don't code, write, or otherwise develop anything in the world of software, so take my opinion with a huge grain of salt. That said, I believe the overall challenge was cool!
High Pitch Vocals
High Pitch Vocals Prije mjesec
I hope we get an Anthony Reacts to this series once it's finished, I'd love to hear his comments on this all
reezlaw Prije mjesec
@Anders Jackson I was very disappointed with Titus when he made that rant video saying that gaming on Linux was never gonna happen. Now that the Deck has the potential to change everything it sounds particularly short-sighted. He's hidden the video behind his own paywall since, but Gardiner Bryant has a great reaction to it, still up on his channel
nebulous Prije mjesec
@John C i think his channel is probably my favourite linux channel. 🙂
nebulous Prije mjesec
@John C happy to help 🙂
John C
John C Prije mjesec
@nebulous not directed at me, but I hadn’t heard of this one. I’ll check this one out! I’m always happy when people have new channels to recommend.
Anders Jackson
Anders Jackson Prije mjesec
Try Chris Titus Tech channel (I think) he are kind like Anthony in helping Linux users and have some opinions. As he had on Linus "Yes, do as I say!"-moment. Oh, here it is. Look for a reaction.
Coda Highland
Coda Highland Prije mjesec
I've been daily driving Linux off and on since 2001 (and macOS in the off times, so still feeling the "companies only care about Windows" vibe)... And as much as I want to defend it, I really can't disagree with some of those points. Desktop notifications are a MESS on Linux, and even though I'm a long-time power user, even I can't get them to work consistently. Missing features are frustrating, I agree, and many times it's because stuff that SHOULD work... doesn't. Stuff that should be easy for me as a developer turns out to fail when I try to build it, because someone upstream violated the standards and there's no way for me to fix it. Again, even as a Linux daily driver, I stand with you here. I think that USB-attached hardware shouldn't depend on drivers even on Windows. It's not necessary and it results in issues like these. You feel more keenly when you're not using Windows, and so that's certainly a valid complaint, it's not exactly Linux's fault. (Mac users have it even worse because Wine on Mac is nowhere near as good as it is on Linux.) Video on Linux is in a much better place than it used to be, but distros are (wisely) not packaging the tools for it by default. I wouldn't expect someone to know what to do without being told, but I also know the tools are still under development so the status quo is likely better than breaking worse by shipping unfinished software. It's a place that it shouldn't have taken so long to get here, and I can't disagree with the complaints. On the other hand... Not using file extensions to say whether or not something is executable? That's absolutely the right thing to do and I think Windows is wrong in this case -- being able to run like a program is a privilege that each file must be granted, and this is a point where I think the security makes training more important than familiarity. In the end, I agree: Linux isn't at a "pick it up and go" state for gaming or content creation. You should expect to have to take things into your own hands from time to time if you need more than a web browser and an office suite. But as someone who has taken the time to do that, the experience can be rewarding.
Seijaku Kun
Seijaku Kun Prije mjesec
I started working with Linux only recently and my experience has been..... 75% percent satisfactory... you do need to restart EVERYTHING in Linux, except maybe your computer/server. But every time you change a config file or a setting that is not picked up by the app/service in runtime, but it's picked up at start time... it makes you restart the app/service
starswater Prije mjesec
Yeah, honestly just yeah. To all of this. Linux can be so exhausting to use. I've mentioned it before that I use it because it gives my drawing tablets more stability, and because I prefer both the customization and lack of such a need for a pesky firewall or virus protection, I love the fact that it isn't an OS acting like a subscription service, among a couple of other small things, but.... it also sometimes has me in tears trying to figure out how to fix problems, and the lack of access to features or some programs (like cutting-edge 2D animation softwares I want) is disappointing at times. Basically, as much as I've always been a little bit of a linux fangirl, honestly picking an OS is kind of a lose/lose/lose situation. There are horrible, glaring downsides to all options. So like you said it really just depends on where your priorities are. One day maybe I'll put myself through the nightmare of seeing what it's like to make my own OS. ......Maybe. Or at least my own programs or something. It's probably a bad idea, and I would probably hate my life if I tried, but damn. That said, just a heads-up that I don't think is going to actually come into play... There is a known bug for Linux Discord (idk about manjaro since I use debian-based), where using voice chat causes the program to crash randomly. Sometimes it'll work for hours with no problem and sometimes it'll crash in mere minutes, closing it out with no warning or anything. There is currently, to my knowledge, no fix for this, and we've been complaining to Discord about it for years.
Soitisisit Prije mjesec
@Fredrik Byström It's also kind of not really the reality since a lot of tools developed for one distro spread out to other distros by osmosis. Besides this, there's a lot of things that are pretty distro agnostic and can even work on other *nix machines like FreeBSD boxes. It's not like any distro has a proprietary anything in most cases. If you like that thing that one distro does, you can usually get it on another distro - with varying amounts of pain. And usually the person who figures that out will make a package for their preferred distro, meaning that the thing spreads for the common user as well.
Fredrik Byström
Fredrik Byström Prije mjesec
As someone who doesn't know anything about programming, it seems to me like the strength of having many different Linux distros is one of Linux's major weaknesses. I can't help but feel that instead of spreading out the development focus over 500+ different distros, with everybody thinking "I'm going to make my own" and instead focusing on "just" 10 different distros, those would have been more developed. But then again if I understand correctly, most of this is done by people volunteering their free time so I really can't complain.
Just another Weeb
Just another Weeb Prije mjesec
this video series made me take the plunge to and so far ive found manjaro to be the easiest to use but i dont have any fancy peripherals to set up
Andreas Prije mjesec
"the control panel looks like it's from 10 years ago." You'd think so! But it's actually looked like that for the 13 past years I've been using it! So it's even older!
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
The silly font he's using didn't help much either...
Tanmaya Biswal
Tanmaya Biswal Prije mjesec
@TossedTripod645 If you look carefully, I WROTE CONTROL PANEL. Let me repeat. CONTROL PANEL. Does AMD have a graphics control panel aka Radeon Software on Linux? If it does, lemme know. And if you don't know what you are talking about, dont @ me.
Dragon Slayer Ornstein
At least it's better than the AMD GPU control panel... if you want to enable/disable vsync get vim out and edit the x11 config, in wayland... who knows.
TossedTripod645 Prije mjesec
@Tanmaya Biswal thats because their drivers are inlcuded in the kernel lmao
csmcapthy Prije mjesec
@ArrowGent the NVIDIA control panel is fucking garbage on both windows and linux
Abolfazl Khodaygani
Abolfazl Khodaygani Prije mjesec
I almost forgot how hard for new linux users many routine linux stuff might be
nijuo joing
nijuo joing Prije mjesec
Linus on Pop os: "I shouldn't have to use the terminal to install software" Linus on Manjaro: Ignores app store and goes straight to terminal
Arsonix Prije mjesec
Do more Linux stuff! I just switched to Manjaro and these are really helpful
Rithius3485 Prije mjesec
You guys should have a co-lab with someordinarygamers for some Linux fun!
Baguette Prije mjesec
7:50 just FYI, coming from the audio world, that's most likely a bug related to the following: Your audio interface sampling the data at 48k and OBS trying to re encode it at 44.1k (these numbers are just an example). This makes the pitch of the audio go lower and these weird cuts which (I guess) is the software trying to sync up the difference between the two. This happens a lot to a friend of mine using Discord on MacOS too (when plugging an audio interface while in a call) and only restarting Discord fixes it (not defending any OS, just pointing out that this seems a common problem).
Accessible Linux Gaming
Yep, that's what causes that for sure.
Clint Theriault
Clint Theriault Prije mjesec
@CNR_07 yeah, but it's not really stable enough to completely replace pulseaudio yet. It's gonna take another year or so for that.
Nerothos Prije mjesec
Yep. This can happen on any platform. Need to make sure to set your sample rates the same across the board unfortunately, otherwise apps try switching back and forth when they get focus (in Windows as well) and things get wonky real fast.
SoyKaf Prije mjesec
man, I've had this bug for ages and never bothered to look into it. I just thought it was funny and restarted pulse. Thanks for enlightening me on the cause!
CNR_07 Prije mjesec
​@Clint Theriault "When it comes out" What? PipeWire was available years ago.
Sonic Fast Food Enjoyer
I felt that complaint about condescending tones with Linux uses. Same goes with a lot of developers, they just, for some reason, don't like newbs or people asking for help. Of course this doesn't apply to every developer or Linux user, I've met plenty of helpful people on discord and on forums, but many don't seem very welcoming.
Starmain Prije mjesec
10:00 oh well... that is difficult to do indeed. Basically, you'll have to install libunity, which is a package that is originally packaged in the ubuntu-based distros, but is in the AUR. However, it is not maintained anymore, so the packages are outdated, meaning you'll have to upgrade and downgrade some packages (vala0.44 and vala 0.52, iirc) and install certain dependencies manually or else it just won't install
Chuctanunda Spiderbone
One of the most important things I have learned from watching you guys struggle with Linux is: IT'S NOT JUST ME! I watch you guys make all the same assumptions I would in similar situations and end up with similar results. So coming from Windows, and wanting to do other things besides tinker with the OS, presents significant barriers. I've also noticed that, you employ the same troubleshooting steps I do when working with Linux. 1. Google stuff 2. Download a random script from github or copy a random command from some forum, 3. Spend some time puzzling over the obtuse, often incomplete or even wrong instructions, ( if instructions exist at all) 4. Pray that the solution and the instructions are less than 10 years old and at least tangentially related to your problem. 5. Switch to Windows to configure your peripherals At this point, I have usually run out of time and have to pack it up and leave it for next week to try out the random script. Glad you had at least partially good results. I'm beginning to think that it's not just the stupidity of us Windows users. I think it might be that Linux is still stuck back in the '80s. All that green-screen, command line stuff just brings back memories. Not always good ones. Oh, BTW, love that font. I always try that one first.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
@jesus salgado If you Googled how to fix your broken fan belt in your car ,and some helpful guide said "go jump off the bridge", would you do that too? :-/
Ex nihilo nihil fit
Ex nihilo nihil fit Prije mjesec
_"IT'S NOT JUST ME!"_ Yes, genius, you didn't somehow end up with a drastically different brain after many thousands of generations of development of the species. 😆
jesus salgado
jesus salgado Prije mjesec
@Brian Hsu you just have said it, you are a developer with huge experience, but most users not and they are going to google the solution and take the first thing they found. Even me as developer i have to do it sometimes for really minor fixes. I know is not secure but we cannot expect a normal user to have (in your case) 30+ years of linux experience, when they probably have been using windows all their lifes
GenericName V.2.1
GenericName V.2.1 Prije mjesec
@Brian Hsu i think it's easier to know, if .exe is secure with just tools like virustotal, sandboxie, and a good antivirus you are safe, also there is the fact that windows tell you if the executable was made by a trusted developer or not. with Linux you need to do all that yourself, and probably you need to be familiar with the scripting language used in the script. also there is the fact that windows u don't need to do this things that much because most of the time things just works without the need of any script or additional tweaks, unfortunately that's not the case
Brian Hsu
Brian Hsu Prije mjesec
This approach is extremely dangerous, please just learn how Linux works properly. Random scripts / commands you found on the website that you don't know what's going on behind probably not going to solve you any problem or even harmful. If you won't download arbitrary .exe file or .bat file and run it blindly in Windows, then you shouldn't do that in Linux too. Linux is only secure when you know what you're doing. I'm really shocked by how many people think it's normal and they should do this in Linux to solve their problem. Even I'm a experience software engineer and use Linux as my main desktop since 90's, I would never execute a script unless I fully trust the source.
Lestibournes Prije mjesec
I think the main trouble I see in this and perhaps the previous video is that hardware and software makers still don't support Linux, or that they only partially support it.
Zbigniew Żołnierowicz
A lot of the issues you had would be solved if those companies supported Linux properly, but they won't, because there isn't enough customers on Linux for them to warrant that. And people won't switch *to* Linux to bolster the numbers, because their peripherals don't work, creating a perpetual cycle of torment.
Caio Vinicius
Caio Vinicius Prije mjesec
Yeah. Someone needs to break the cycle, don't you think? If GNU/Linux distros was created as general OS for end users and they use it, maybe also big companies would support it properly.
JimBob1937 Prije mjesec
@Ed Barnes , yes, that is kind of my point as well. I'm big into open source, but the "everyone can customize it" mentality just leads to split effort on what likely should be shared goals/tasks. The more developers aggregate their efforts, the more standardized and refined each thing is. Since software is built upon layers of abstraction, the more standardized everything is, the easier it is to develop, test, and maintain further software. I love Linux for hosting and server tasks (I do Linux purely through command line via SSH), but there has always been too much fragmentation to use it for a personal daily driver rig for me. Yet, you get those in the Linux community claiming you need to try X distro it is "better," or it is some company's fault, or it is the users fault that they don't want to delve into the details, despite that being the vast majority of users in the world. This isn't even touching that UI and UX is a big thing that Linux gets wrong with a lot of distros and users simply have to be more technical to follow it. Believe it or not, a majority of users barely have a functional grasp of computers they use daily, kind of amazing they get things done to be honest. This is why the second you even need to go beyond anything basic to fix a problem, you've lost the user. Linux won't take over the desktop world until this level of usability has been reached. Sure, Windows, Mac OSX, IOS....etc have issues, but they handle things just well enough to keep a general user from drowning (most of the time, haha).
isaboll1 Prije mjesec
@Ed Barnes Given the difficulties System 76 has had with Gnome, and the decisions made with regards to how Gnome handled some stuff (even before they decided to move on to their own DE), I disagree that them sticking with Gnome would've done what you would think (in fact, it would've just led to them maintaining older forks most likely, which would still suck), precisely because Gnome's goals are different than the goals System76 has particularly for PopOS. Even contribution to the DE upstream with major changes that goes in a different direction wouldn't guarantee that it would directly be accepted into the main branch, which would lead into what I described. Keep in mind the changes System76 are making are directly related to the UX side of the DE, without touching things like GTK and other portions, that they had huge difficulty in doing by continuing with Gnome. I think it's unrealistic to think of Linux as a single OS, that needs standardization in the way Android tries for, because Linux desktop isn't a single OS at all. It's a standard for which multiple OS's are based on, which is where the strength comes from. Distro based decisions are largely relative to just those distros, and standardization should come in more simpler, universal areas outside of UX based things that can be tied to an OS's identity and use. Keep in mind, I agree that Unity was a pretty cool DE that non technical users could enjoy, but it was killed off due to canonical focusing less on desktop, as well as the fact that they were met with the same ire regarding moving away from Gnome, that is being done now with System76 moving to their own thing. That is ridiculous, since there's good chance that a tailored DE that addresses those user concerns could do really well, esp for newer users that may be pushed in using PopOS.
isaboll1 Prije mjesec
@Ed Barnes No disrespect to you, but seeing this opinion irks me. The main reason is because, not everything is, or should be expected to be provided as a standard just because it's available and supported. With respect to System76, their DE is made particularly for the constraints and usecase of PopOS, yet is going to be provided in a fashion available for any distro to use (to fit along FOSS standards of course). That doesn't mean it's trying to become a "standard DE" in the same sense as Gnome and KDE, which are directly made to address multiple distributions with regards to what is focused on in it's development, while implementing what those teams feel is best for a DE.
TurtleKwitty Prije mjesec
@Anankin12 Hooray! Absolutely sucks when it happens glad it didnt for you :3
opzz xsin
opzz xsin Prije mjesec
The reaction videos from the Linux community on Part 1 were surprisingly nice and polite
Jonathan Jollimore
Jonathan Jollimore Prije mjesec
Let hope Valve can do a lot of the hard work with the Steam Deck OS
niddg viiut
niddg viiut Prije mjesec
When done, I'd like to see a version with Anthony, starting from scratch. I'd like to see the difference.
Daniel Dougan
Daniel Dougan Prije mjesec
I love that Linus and Luke are doing this because it's calling attention to the fact that Linux has a lot of work to do to be usable for normal people. I'm going through sooooooooo many frustrations configuring a Debian server in Webmin on an old Buffalo Terastation at home. The hardware is fine, but the software is driving me insane. Can they perhaps just make a "wizard" with recommended settings for those of us who don't configure servers for a living?
Stéphane Bjørn
Stéphane Bjørn Prije mjesec
While a lot has to be said about defaults on Linux, most of the issues basically boil down to "Companies don't give a crap about the experience on Linux". The open source community has to fill in what companies don't do for their own products and that's without specifications, documentation or any sort of help. It's no wonder the final experience isn't great.
Stéphane Bjørn
Stéphane Bjørn Prije mjesec
@Weaver Games many companies choose to support just one or two and that's fine - other distro maintainers will take care of the porting. If it works on one, it can work on all (unless you do very weird stuff)
1 1
1 1 Prije mjesec
​@Arthur Fleck Do you seriously think that most people worry about privacy and security? They send dickpicks via messengers ffs. The thing you linux nerds refuse to understand is that us average joes don't give a damn about privacy as long as things work and the devs don't offer lengthy excuses instead of fixing stuff. It doesn't matter whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't even matter if it's a bad thing -- that is a fact you have to deal with.
SCARLET★STAR Prije mjesec
@Евгений Увин Just because it's open source doesn't mean it has to be random people working on it in their free time as a hobby. Most software companies if not all, use open source software components, improve on it and recontribute back to the projects.
Remfur Prije mjesec
I can't say that's the full story. Companies are honestly just on not supporting Linux-- any software developer should agree that developing, and more importantly SUPPORTING software is, at the very very least, not free. Which is especially a problem given Linux's diversity. Apple used to boast about their low-levels of software fragmentation for a really good reason-- it makes everyone's lives easier. On the more technical side, I wouldn't be surprised if Linux's frameworks are far more decentralized than Windows. Sounds like a good thing, but it means you could potentially have tons of dependancies that are all independently updated, and little to no support with using them. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised if the level of abstraction of Linux frameworks, effectively how easy they are to use, is lower than Windows.
Arthur Fleck
Arthur Fleck Prije mjesec
@Outkast Army comeon man if even linux starts giving in to commercial closed source services. Be ready for a purely commercial monopoly where your privacy doesn't matters and you will have no other choice. You don't even get the point of open source, it's not a market to attract users, it's a basic human right protection and resistance against big tech. If you have a workaround to that, keeping privacy intact and keeping basic softwares free....all the while making these closed source services officially available on linux, go on share your idea. But if you are suggesting to dispose of the original purpose then all you would be causing is harm.
jort93z Prije mjesec
You can use pamac in the terminal as well, pamac install [package], pamac remove [package] and so on. I must say I generally prefer it over pacman, mostly because it does AUR too.
Panthros Prije mjesec
I think you made it harder on yourself by not using Ubuntu or Mint. I appreciate the videos as it brings to light issues that need to get resolved.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
@Lazy Tiger If he'd read *anything* about the distro he picked, he would have known to use the correct package manager.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
Ubuntu? Meh - another attempted monopoly (Canonical)... avoid it, use Debian instead.
Lazy Tiger
Lazy Tiger Prije mjesec
Installing arch would have taught him how linux works best, which is through the terminal. Trying to use linux like windows creates a lot of headaches. For example, he would have known that pacman is the arch package manager. He would be comfortable using git from the terminal to easily clone scripts and such instead of trying to do it through a browser. oh well.
Buhs Prije mjesec
I partially agree, but Arch and its spin-offs aren't particularly hard. They're just distros that are extra into the RTFM mindset. One thing that's led to is the Arch wiki is *fantastic* both in walking you through what you need to do to accomplish various things and probably >95% of issues you deal with are explained on there. On the other hand, Mint and Ubuntu are very straight forward with most day-to-day things but if there's some less common task you'd like to do then it may be harder to find the "proper" way to do it.
djbassaus Prije mjesec
Thank you Linus, you exactly reflect my sentiment towards Linux. I want it to succeed, but the user experience is light years behind.
Will Brigg
Will Brigg Prije mjesec
these random linux problems sound very similar to what i experienced in 2011/12 trying to make the function keys work on a samsung series 9. Had to bind each of the keys to custom scripts that mimicked the original functionality.
Braiam Prije mjesec
This is the "vendors treat Linux as second class citizen, if they are even aware that it exist" chapter. Sadly, the community can't pick up the vacuum left by companies with 1 man projects (like the GoXLR) when they don't offer support or when the software is closed sources (Teams/Discord).
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
Surprise, surprise: M$ product isn't supported properly on Linux... :-/
TheGuy Prije mjesec
On the onther hand developing on Linux user application Is harder. There so many different version of Linux with different versions of libs it's almost impossible to test all while having relatively few users. Library compatibility is a mess.
David Marceau
David Marceau Prije mjesec
Not all vendors treat Linux as second class citizens. Put your money where your mouth is. Buy hardware that supports Linux from the get-go. Email manufacturers and impose the requirement on them and let them know you're going to buy somebody else's product because it supports Linux.
Kiloneie Prije mjesec
Which is why Valve is praised and should be praised even more for Proton(i know they are doing it to eventually move away from Windows and a big F to Microsoft with their MS Store).
Matt Hagge
Matt Hagge Prije mjesec
​@Kristijan Yeah that's very true, but I also think that it's a totally necessary tool to bootstrap the Linux gaming community to grow it to a size that developers will start paying attention. Multi-platform development is already a big deal, and less reliance on DirectX will only continue as the world shifts to ARM and Microsoft keeps lagging behind in ARM support, so I think the confluence of bootstraping the community though Proton and greater multi-platform development will eventually solve the gaming issue for Linux.
-T- -
-T- - Prije mjesec
To future-proof your pleasant PC experience, it's good to make sure today not to lock down to software or hardware that doesn't work on Linux.
Satoshi was a reptiloid
I think one thing to take away from this is how important it is to buy supported hardware. It's less restrictive than macos, but it's usually a good idea to look up what is supported by openrazer, openrgb, etc., or just from vendors with official linux support. And another one is that electron apps (like slack) suck, better to just use the browser version tbh.
MrSearaphim Prije mjesec
I've ran into the whole having to turn things off an on again so many times on Arch and I have no idea why people tell you it's not a thing on Linux. To be fair though, I usually run into that issue on software that were first designed with windows in mind then ported to linux.
eriobis Prije mjesec
You guys are slowly breaking the internet with this serie !
Matt Hagge
Matt Hagge Prije mjesec
As a Linux Sysadmin this series is hilarious. Can't wait for more.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
@christian watt Nope, it's easy to blame him ... he's probably so busy because of all the fires he starts by going at things half-thikingly.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
@Alexander Do elaborate...
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
@coltin engle Not a good look for a Linus (who is meant to be tech-savvy). Cf. Luke, who actually thinks before he makes a decision.
MrWarlock616 Prije mjesec
@PennsylvaniaEAS2006 I have used it many times. I am a software engineer, I enjoy the tinkering and troubleshooting, but I also know a bad user experience when I see it. Windows is far ahead in terms of usability at this point. And some things like hardware accelerated 4k video/HDR are just missing on Linux that would require almost no setup on Windows.
I lick the insides of microwave popcorn packages
​@PennsylvaniaEAS2006 I've daily driven Linux for over 8 years and in order to be able to confidently say it is user friendly, I'd either need to use a lot of imagination, or have very different ideas about what the terms "user friendly" and "user experience" mean. And all of that, including the fact that many are simply denying the user experience and dismiss it as irrelevant or "their fault", has been a major issue for over 15 years now. There may be various reasons why more people aren't trying out Linux, but these are the actual reasons why they don't stick with it and why OEMs have ZERO interest in shipping their hardware with Linux on it. And the name debate has been over for a long while now, people aren't going to start calling it GNU/Linux, aside from other reasons because it's a horrendous name. They should have come up with a sensible one, but no, they had to reflect the fact that GNU "technically" isn't dependant on Linux. Just a small peek at the insanity of some of those people.
pif502 Prije mjesec
The exact Linux experience! What is different from 5years ago is that the frustration now has a GUI!
Claudio Ramirez
Claudio Ramirez Prije mjesec
Sadly it's almost the same story from 10+ years ago. Most of the blame for the poor experience can hardly be put on the OS itself, but the lack of care that most software/hardware makes give to Linux, by either giving a subpar version of the Windows software, or just not giving anything at all. I remember when I got my self a Lumia 1020 running Windows Phone (remember that) and just about every popular app that was even available (instagram, facebook, spotify, you name it) for Windows Phone, was a subpar version lacking features, having an outdated UI or flat out crashing. Windows Phone was actually very very good, and felt like a great mobile OS, but without support from software makers, it was a god awful experience.
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
The good bits were probably the Nokia bits... and the crap came from M$. Then they killed it, so I guess it's moot :-(
Alexei Kozlenok
Alexei Kozlenok Prije mjesec
Thanks for the Linux videos, please do more
TheSliderW Prije mjesec
As far as repurposing old laptops goes, I've installed Solus on my MacBook Air from 2013 and it's been a flawless experience ever since (2 years ago). I could nitpick about a couple of features like the start menu being complicated to edit or the taskbar not working well in vertical mode or even the default file explorer lacking features but overall it has been sweet and simple and with the support of appimage it's even been easier to get random apps running if the default package manager doesn't have them in the repo.
Pyrogman245 Prije mjesec
Spending hours trying to fix something on Linux just to come back a day later and it magically be fixed is such an accurate Linux experience
Andrew Prije mjesec
@Erik Bročko and I can definitely confirm it wasn't the permissions cause no matter what I did I couldn't change them. I've since then forgotten about the issue
Andrew Prije mjesec
@Erik Bročko ya, my problem is that I'm not used to interacting with the community cause the answer you just provided made more sense than what I was finding on Google. Been too used to windows users having already discovered the problem and have a fix for it already
Erik Bročko
Erik Bročko Prije mjesec
@Andrew Could be a corrupted filesystem set read-only to prevent further damage. Or just incorrect permissions. Linux is very verbose when something goes awry. If a Wi-Fi card needs fiddling, it's possible that an incorrect driver is trying to claim it. This is what I had on vanilla Arch installation ISO. It was in the manual, tho, so easy fix.
Andrew Prije mjesec
@Erik Bročko I've even had my hard drive for no reason turn into a read only and I couldn't switch it back, still never figured out the reason for it
Andrew Prije mjesec
@Erik Bročko I envy you because their have been a few times that this happened
Riku Azhurlar
Riku Azhurlar Prije mjesec
im no linux master ive only started getting heavily into it in the last year, what i have learned is that for some reason things dont always register in settings like notifications until after a restart of that process, the easiest way to do that is a quick restart. on the same vein some programs dont have their permissions right until certain system process are restarted especially for audio devices. usually a restart of the alsa/pipewire process (audio server/handler) will fix it the both have commands for that that are escaping me at the moment
Roger Barraud
Roger Barraud Prije 27 dana
Similar thing can apply when dealing with various parts of the network stack and attendant services start/restart.